"Let the Lord of Chaos rule."
A place to consolidate all known Advent lore and to fill up the holes with our own ideas.
Published on September 24, 2009 By Fokxnim In Sins of a Solar Empire

So this is the Advent version of the original Vasari history thread (http://forums.impulsedriven.com/363669) and the new TEC history thread (http://forums.impulsedriven.com/364997).

Basically, this is a spot where the Sins community can place all their thoughts on anything that has to do with Advent history and culture, and we as a group can decide what we'd like to actually have as part of the Advent lore (unoffically, of course). This is the spot for any holes in the Advent lore that you'd like to fill. And this is the spot where you place any really awesome ideas about the Advent that you'd like to share with everyone. I'll add some things later, but feel free to begin posting stuff. And I highly recommend going to the Vasari and TEC versions and placing your comments or even ideas on the topics discussed there. Happy idea spamming!

Also: I'll update this top part once we've come to an agreement on the ideas discussed here.

 Current lore:

The origins of the Advent began well before recorded history. It is said that they began as one of many broken peoples who sought spiritual escape on peripheral worlds following the great wars. the earliest known records trace back to the formation of the Trade Order. At its inception, the Order sent emissaries to recruit all known inhabited planets into the organization. One such group discovered a single desert planet orbiting a massive red star surprisingly populated by a thriving civilization. Excited by the profitability of this potential market, the Order authorized immediate integration and the emissaries initiated contact. The representatives of the planet decidedly rejected the membership offer. Not willing to accept failure, the Order sent a series of market research teams to acquire data that could be used to formulate a more elaborate strategy. They received a single, incomplete report containing disturbing information. Shocking acts of deviancy, at every level of society, violated the venerable taboos common to all Trader worlds. Sinful cerebral integration technologies, unrestricted biological experimentation, strange forms of collectivism, and the wholesale usage of countless neurochemicals were but a few of the transgressions. The Trader Worlds overwhelmingly voted that such an aberration had no place within the territories of their new Order. With an instinctive fear, the Traders took control of the planet by force and exiled the inhabitants far into uncharted space. The exiles would integrate the story of their origins into myths and prophecies. They believed that their destiny was to exact retribution and assume their rightful place in the galaxy. One thousand years later, when it became clear that the rare and precious resources that empowered their unique way of life approached exhaustion, the society unanimously decided to return to their original home and fulfill their prophecies.

Here are the ship summaries for the Advent, as they add a bit to the little lore we have on the Advent, and they might spark an idea. I'll add my opinion to the summaries in [ ]. They are all opinions, so please argue with me about a take on a summary if you disagree with it.

Seeker Vessel

The Seeker Vessel is a fast-attack ship built for quickly scouting out enemy fleet positions and jumping

back without being noticed. Its twin pulse lasers also make it useful in small skirmishes against lightly

armored targets. Dedicated to the will of the Unity, Seekers will not hesitate to sacrifice a portion of

their presence to follow the enemy or to martyr themselves against the hulls of the unenlightened.

[maybe their captains are all tough men and slightly suicidal? Remember, Advent women did not work in the tasks that required small amounts of PsiTech.]

Disciple Vessel Primary

Armed with a single forward pulse laser, the Disciple Vessel may at first seem underpowered, but that

is deceptive. Shedding extra crew compartments and relying on total integration of the ship‘s crew into

its systems, the Disciple is agile and deadly. Once further trained and equipped, the Disciple Vessel

submits itself to becoming an important battery of antimatter for the more powerful of the Unity‘s

vessels, while at the same time denying antimatter to the enemy. The Disciple is crewed by expendable

low-level Advent acolytes who have demonstrated their personal submission to the Unity, but have no

particular psionic talents.

[crewed by a couple of women "controlling" the psionic flows, but the ship is mostly male dominated]

Illuminator Vessel

The Illuminator Vessel is a frightening sight to behold on the battlefield and a true testament to the

Advent‘s mastery of beam technology. Featuring not one but three long-range beam cannons, the

Illuminator can quickly tear through shields and hull, leaving nothing but a cloud of debris in its wake.

Despite its weak armor, the Illuminator is able to survive due to its ability to project false images of

itself into the minds of nearby enemies, confusing and bewildering them. The adversary facing a

cohort of Illuminators can never be sure of how numerous his enemies really are.

[crewed by medium-level women capable of making psionic tricks. Most of the crew is male, as they are not needed for large psionic tasks.]

Purge Vessel

To the humans of the Trader Worlds, the shape of the Purge Vessel is reminiscent of a great bird, but

it‘s one bird nobody wants to see in their sky. Lightly shielded with moderate armor, the Purge Vessel

can rain down powerful kinetic bolts onto an undefended world, laying it to waste. Purge Vessel

crews are recruited from amongst the most zealous of Advent converts, and see themselves as direct

incarnations of the Unity‘s desire for retribution. Although the ship is not heavily armored or shielded,

Purge Vessels will often rush through a contested area in their eagerness to deliver justice to the

unfaithful.

[run by the most zealous in the Advant race, no real need for women here, unless to fire the kinetic bolts a jumpstart of psionic energy is needed. but even then, a group of men working together could achieve the same end.]

Defense Vessel

Although designed to counter enemy fighters and bombers, the Defense vessel is also adept at taking

on opposing frigates and cruisers. With its pulse laser turrets, the Defense is capable of targeting

enemies in almost any direction. Single Defense Vessels are weak, but used in large numbers or as an

escort group, they can be a force to be reckoned with, especially when used as escort for capital ships.

An Advent crew member feels at ease when he can sense the presence of a fleet of Defense Vessels

guarding his flank.

[crewed by at least one low- to mid-level women. not a favorable job, but a noble one.]

Missionary Vessel

The Missionary ship spreads the Unity‘s will throughout the galaxy by seeding new Advent colonies on

newly claimed worlds. Missionaries are given special psionic training that allows them to encourage

indigenous peoples to submit to the will of the Unity, and to break the spirits of those who resist.

In addition, specialized members of the Unity are onboard who are willing to separate themselves

for long periods of time in order to establish isolated mining facilities. Like most colony ships, the

Missionary is weakly armed and armored, and succeeds in battle by avoiding it at all costs.

[almost all are women, thought not many are above low-level in PsiTech, as only special training is needed to crew a Missonary, not large amounts of psionic power. The name itself implies the Advent are deeply religious. The only men aboard this craft would be those willing to work in mining facilities.]

Aeria Drone Host

The Aeria Drone Host is the Advent answer to the TEC light carrier; the key difference being that its

fighter/bomber squadrons are unmanned. Instead, multiple onboard psionic anima are integrated into

the Aeria‘s systems, allowing multiple drone fighters/bombers to be piloted remotely using a highly

sophisticated telepathic link. Anima members are among the most skilled psionics in the Unity, and

their telekinetic skills are revered and feared even by those in higher castes.

[unlike the Vasari and TEC who's fighter and bomber pilots are low ranking men/Vasari, the Advent fighter and bomber crews are high-level women. The Aeria permits no men to cross its threshold.]

Iconus Guardian

The Iconus Guardian is a relatively recent addition to the Advent fleet and reflects the new focus on

ship shield technology. The hull of the ship is weak, but the Guardian has an extremely powerful shield

generator, which can be projected outwards to protect nearby vessels. The shields do not completely

prevent the target from being damaged, but they can help nearby ships to survive battles which would

have otherwise have destroyed them. Guardians make excellent supporting ships and combined with

offensively oriented ships, like the Destra, can be part of a devastating force.

[crewed by low-level women, men making up the main work force. no psionic ability is needed besides that which is used to fly the ship. the shield generator is run with electrical energy, not psionic energy, and can be worked easily by males.]

Domina Subjugator

Utilizing the Advent‘s unique telepathic skills, the Domina‘s specialized hull is capable of projecting a

psionic suppression field onto enemy ships. Once hit, the opposing crew is unable to move, rendering

their vessel open to attack by more powerful Advent ships. This makes the Subjugator a fantastic

complement to any of the more combat-oriented vessels, or to any of the Advent capital ships. Domina

crews are highly trained psionics and can also telepathically encourage nearby ships‘ crews to work

well past the point of exhaustion.

[high-level women dominate the bridge, and most of the work force as well. a small portion of men also work on this ship.]

Destra Crusader

Destra Crusaders bring enlightenment to the masses, if not typically in a friendly manner. The Destra‘s

design is dominated by four huge plasma cannons which make it more than a match for most enemy

frigates and cruisers. The appearance of the Crusaders in the first few battles of the war marked the

beginning of the end for the TEC forces. The resulting tales of the survivors created a widespread

superstition in the TEC military that the appearance of a Destra on the battlefield signifies bad luck for

the TEC.

[crewed by low-level women, men make up the rest of the work force.]

Radiance Battleship

No ship personifies the Advent‘s vengeful nature more so than the Radiance Battleship. Literally

bristling with varied energy weapons, it can unleash a torrential downpour of plasma bursts and laser

fire. Those who endure such an onslaught have little respite, as the Radiance‘s axial beam cannon can

cut a wide swath of destruction through enemy ranks.

[as with all capital ships, women are what you'll find at every level of this ship, even working the cannons. there are perhaps a few men that will take up positions on a capital ship, but not many are allowed.]

Revelation Battlecruiser

Immense arrays of powerful PsiTech project through the hulls of the Revelation Battlecruisers, allowing

them to amplify the natural skill of their Battle Psintegrae up to a planetary scale. While such power

occasionally finds benign use, the Advent show little hesitation using it to channel their wrath and

inflict chaos upon the hapless populations below.

[high-level women only crewing this ship, although medium- and low-level women can work outside the bridge. men are not allowed.]

Progenitor Mothership

While the Advent certainly seek to exact revenge for their exile, they also strongly desire to spread the

influence of the Unity. Few ships are as capable in this objective as Progenitor Motherships—their

ability to tap into the Unity‘s collective consciousness is unrivalled. The most skilled Progenitor crews

are so attuned to the Unity that they can psionically transfer the spirits of a destroyed ship‘s dead

crew into another vessel. This ensures that the Advent‘s best and brightest are never truly lost, as their

presence can be recovered and reinserted into willing hosts of the Unity.

[the Advent have their own way of cloning, which involves removing an Advent's presence or "soul" from a dead body, no matter how mutilated, and replacing it in another willing Advent. The original soul of the host will be discarded or transplanted back into the dead body, and the new presence will have full control. this ship is crewed only by high-level women on all levels.]

Halycon Carrier

Responsible for remotely piloting groups of the Drone fighters, Drone Anima are valued crewmembers

aboard all Advent capital ships. The most veteran of this caste are reserved for positions aboard

Halcyon Carriers; leveraging the piloting skill of these elite Psintegrat allows the ship to host a

veritable swarm of strike craft. Halcyon Carriers employ a number of systems to augment the combat

effectiveness of their own fighter wings, as well as those of allies.

[high-level women crew the ship and work the drone anima. the rest of the work force can be male, but will usually be mid- to low-level women.]

Rapture Battlecruiser

Rapture Battlecruisers carry relatively few and often lighter weapon emplacements than most similarly

sized capital ships, leading many early TEC captains to believe they were an easy target. Such

smugness often gave way to display as their crews faltered and succumbed to the true strength of the

Rapture: an abundance of both advanced PsiTech and the Advent‘s most gifted Battle Psintegrat.

[high-level women crew the ship and run the special abilities, the rest of the ship's tasks are run by high-level men (high-level by male standards)]

I conclude from this that there is at least 10-20 women for every 1 male, probably much more than that, in Advent society. Everything else I believe I mentioned under each ship. Now I want to know your thoughts on my opinions, and your own opinions as well.

Note: when I say crewed by women, I mean women in the bridge or command center. maybe captained by was the better phrase, but there you have it.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Sep 26, 2009

@Allegiance86 - All Advent have PsiTech, but men for the most part have very little. That's what Advent lore basically tells us.

Oh, I forgot to mention why women would have to be the ones working in the bridge.

An Advent ship runs by its bridge psionically linking with its crew/parts of the ship, like the engine and antimatter chamber. So anyone without psionic power would not be able to power an Advent ship, as it runs on PsiTech. So men would not usually be able to captain a ship, simply because they don't have the amount of PsiTech needed for the job. That's why I assumed women would be in every bridge. But for the rest of the ship's complement, they wouldn't be working with high levels of psionic power, so they could be men. What I was thinking is that to fire any weapon aboard an Advent ship, you have to jumpstart it with a burst of PsiTech. So teams of 5-6 men per weapon would be in charge of that, or the rare lone women.

on Sep 26, 2009

Psychic ability amongst the Advent population can be made analogous to height in the world's population. On average, men are taller than women, but not all men are taller than all women. So, applying this analogy to the Advent, on average, women are more psionically talented than men, but not all women have stronger psychic talents than all men.

So, it is entirely possible that one man with unusually powerful psychic talents could be commanding the odd crew, though whether this is allowed in Advent culture is up for speculation.

PsiTech pretty much forms the basis around a large portion of Advent technology... there are PsiTech improvements to their lasers, kinetic bolts, mining (specifically crystal), and armor.

on Sep 26, 2009

very interesting... i need to re-read the manual over before i contribute anything, but i would like to include, if it is not too far off base some linkages to how things are done in Jordan's "Wheel of Time", i guess i mean i would like to take ideas i have about WoT and bring them into Sins.  I would also like to contribute some stories, if that doesn't pull the thread off too much from its intended direction.

-Teal

 

on Sep 26, 2009

The Wheel of Time series is without doubt my favorite books of all time.

I love you.

And yeah, the things the Advent can do with PsiTech are very much like what the Aes Sedai can do, and how there's different degrees of power with both. I'd be glad to read your ideas.

on Sep 26, 2009

InfiniteVoid
Psychic ability amongst the Advent population can be made analogous to height in the world's population. On average, men are taller than women, but not all men are taller than all women. So, applying this analogy to the Advent, on average, women are more psionically talented than men, but not all women have stronger psychic talents than all men.

So, it is entirely possible that one man with unusually powerful psychic talents could be commanding the odd crew, though whether this is allowed in Advent culture is up for speculation.

PsiTech pretty much forms the basis around a large portion of Advent technology... there are PsiTech improvements to their lasers, kinetic bolts, mining (specifically crystal), and armor.

Right, what I mentioned every time was that women would NORMALLY fit into those positions. Not that men were completely excluded. But you would be very surprised to find a man in that position.

But imagine this. You are brought up to believe women are just naturally stronger than men in psionic power, which is a fact. (excluding the odd weak women or strong man, lets go on) So many years of this belief has corrupted your view of men (Red Ajah, Teal!) and now men are not trusted in high-power positions, even if they have the strength for it. You've just been taught for so long that men are weak, so that even when a strong man comes around, he wouldn't be trusted in a high-power job. Sterotypes would arise about men, how they are lazy or can't be trusted to complete a task, or anything that could be formed from the base of men being weak. So it's perfectly reasonable that say men aren't allowed on board Aeria craft, because first off why would a man ever need to enter one, and they'd probably just break something or mess up a switchboard. That was just one example, but you get my point.

on Sep 26, 2009

please if your gonna claim something as far fetched as all women having more psionic powers then all men. please for the sake of everyone here back it up. Dont just start making things up and expecting people to accept it. If you start doing that then everyone coming in here to get an idea about the lore will have their image of the Advent, TEC, and Vasari tainted by misinformed posts.

There is nothing in the lore that states men arent as powerful as women. It just states "Females in particular demonstrate a natural prowess and have come to dominate the higher castes, called Coalescences." This basically means it comes naturally to women. While men would have to work for it for the most part. Just with everything else some men will have a natural prowess for psionic abilities as women. But being that females are more mentally oriented it just seems right it be easier for them to use their brains.

But it doesnt say anything about men not being able to reach a level of psionic power as strong as a female Coalescences. Just that the majority of them are female.

Yes we can only go on what we imagine, but the Advent unlike the Vasari, arent as alien. They are just humans who can use their minds to do their bidding. So before we create another alien culture, remember they still have human ties.

on Sep 26, 2009

Very Very strong human ties.

on Sep 26, 2009

@Allegiance - sterotypes are a very human nature, unfortunately. What I'm saying is that men can do what women do easily, but it would be hard for them and they wouldn't be trusted by women, cause there's the sterotype that all men are weak. Obviously that is not true, that is the Advent sterotype.

Nowhere did I say all women are stronger than all men. I said several times that GENERALLY, or ignoring anomalies like a strong man or a weak women, this is how something would go. Never did I say that every Advent conformed to that belief, but it was the GENERALLY accepted image of men.

on Sep 27, 2009

Honestly I dont see the Advent treating anyone in their collective who are psionic less then any other. While theres always a hierarchy in any society, being that they are all able to communicate via their minds its easier for them to conform as they would act more like a colony of ants, each falling into their respective roles willingly for the betterment of the collective. If they shunned the men there'd be an effect on the Collective Hive Mind that the Advent think so highly of. It would keep the Advent from truly becoming the Super Power they are in the game, granted only slightly less powerful, but nonthe less they wouldnt be as effective if they were to suppress their own. Only the Terrans and "Silent Ones" are considered beneath the Advent. But even with that said, the Advent look to bring any psionic hopeful Terran into the fold.

The idea they dont allow men to fight alongside the women just doesnt fit a group of people as intertwined as the Advent. It would hold them back, not propelle them forward as they have since being exiled from Trader Space a millinia before their Crusades into Trader Space.

on Sep 27, 2009

Except the Advent aren't supposed to be so tightly knit together. The Unity binds them close, but they still have independent thought, they are not a colony of ants. I'm basing this off of the Diplomancy lore. I can't find where the Diplomancy lore actually is right now, and I don't have time to search, but it said the Advent were beginning to question the path they had chosen and the decisions of their leaders. They can't have doubts about their actionos if they are mindless ants. So I'm just preparing the stage for Diplomancy views on the Advent.

on Sep 27, 2009

Just because they begin questioning it doesnt mean they look at each other and say. "oh you have a penis, you cant fight in our war go sit on that bench over there and make me some more ships."

 And I never said they were mindless drones I said they act LIKE ants which is an analogy not a direct parallel to ants. The analogy was to show you that they all feel compelled to do their part for the Unity and that they will accept any job needed to fullfil this mission to seek vengence. In the beginning everyone would have believed in their Crusade to banish the TO and bring those willing into their Fold, But like every war, People start to question it after it isnt a hit and run type deal. Especially a race that can feel every death, every loss personally wether they knew each other or not.

It makes no sense for only females to fight a war, unlike the Vasari, they arent Asexual, they probably dont use cloning all the time, And women are the lifegivers of humanity, To sacrifice that many females to a war effort is totally ridiculous.

also

You know what that would do to the Advent Population? With in just a few years their birthrate would severly drop. Simply because an ALL Female Navy would be on the frontlines dying. While men.........who cant give birth are stuck at home building ships and other necessities for the war effort. Let alone 25 years into the War effort, I cant possibly imagine how the Advent would be able to keep rebuilding their population other then turning fully to cloning. Which has its own issues. The reality is, Men are easier to sacrifice, all you need to do is leave 1/4 the male population behind, for varying reasons and the population will still hold. But if you take 3/4s of the female population and throw them into war, your definitely gonna see a very big drop in birthrate.

If their numbers were to look like anything it would be 3/4s of the Advent Navy were men. And 1/4 would be female. While there would be high ranking Males, most of them would be Females given that they dont number as many and they are more valuable. The males would be spreadout most of them along with the few weak females would be doing the more laborous jobs amoung the Advent.

on Sep 27, 2009

I agree with your first bit. I'm sorry, I didn't understand your ants reference. But you misunderstood my meaning on women and men. Men would still be working on every ship, except for the Aeria. They just wouldn't be in the bridge, which is the most important part of a ship, Advent especially. I mentioned before that groups of 5-6 men would work each weapon/cannon on each ship. And there's all the other nonessential jobs that only require a little PsiTech. Only the women would captain the ship from the bridge, however, cause that's just how Advent tradition is. And it takes something big to change tradition. Yes, nearing Entrenchment or I'm thinking more likely Diplomacy, Advent men will start entering command positions because there's been a severe drop in Advent women. But that's not till the expansion that hasn't even been released yet.

But as for your last paragraph, that's exactly what I've been saying, the men would do most of the grunt work along with a couple weak women, but high-power women would captain the more powerful positions. Guess we just misunderstood each other.

on Sep 27, 2009

Yeah but at the same time, Im saying that Men wouldnt just be apart of the lower grunt work they'd be all over. Like I said There would be plenty of strong psionic men. Its just the Elite is Dominated not completely controlled by females. There would be plenty of men in the higher ranks. Even captaining atleast 45% of all vessels including Captials. They wouldnt suppress their most gifted members, male or female theyd be looked to to lead them to victory.

I have to disagree with there being any tradition of the Advent keeping Females as leaders and men as just grunts. Its just not logical. Its like test scores in schools, women usually round out at the top of the class, usually, but that doesnt mean theirs a lack of men at the top of the class. Infact Im sure the same thing can be said about the Advent, while the females usually make up the strongest of the psionic they arent the only ones. 1,000 years of expansion, Im willing to bet theres Millions if not Billions of strong psionic men. Im still not getting where your idea of this tradition from. But Id like to see some lore to back it up.

With newcomers coming in here to see what the fuss is about their gonna attach themselves to what we agree on. We cant JUST make stuff up, we need to build off of the foundation logically and expand on it keeping ourselves from stepping off the edge and taking this well beyond what logic tells us.

on Sep 27, 2009

Allegiance86
Im still not getting where your idea of this tradition from. But Id like to see some lore to back it up.

To be nitpicky, what lore are you basing your men make up 45% or many of the high positions theory? These threads were made to fill the holes in the Sins lore (I believed), and for that to happen you have to make things up. Now I'm not saying make up any old thing, but something that makes sense. As long as you can explain it, it's a valid issue. Now both of us have explained our view of the Advent hierarchy, neither of us is wrong as there's nothing to base this off of, this can only be our separate opinions, and now we have to wait for the Sins community to choose which idea they like the best. There's really nothing left to say at this point on men's roles in Advent society.

on Sep 27, 2009

 now we have to wait for the Sins community to choose which idea they like the best.

well in that case I go with Allegiance, while there are societies were the weaker of the two genders to get downplayed to a second citizen level, there are others that dont have this problem near to the level that you speak of. And when you consider that the societies that dont have many gender issues usually have greater amounts of freedom for their citizens, and the Advent, according to the lore, teach their children, notice no gender specification, to reach thier full potential in whatever way suits them. Therefore they have greater amounts of freedom and Allegiance's explaination of the gender roles fit quite well with this bit of lore.

as a side note, werent you guys also going to do the history/explainations of the ships, that would be cool as well, I did that for the TEC thread

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